Tuesday, April 7, 2009

Some thoughts


1. POINT SYSTEM: It’s pretty cool actually. Though I find myself constantly comparing old cost vs. new cost. The different encounter levels are a tad strange. 75 points is close to 1000 points and it’s classified as only a grand melee. Skirmishes are more like the classic 500 and 750 point games we’re used to. I was amazed at all the stuff I could bring. Seems like 50 points is going to be the new norm for game size imo.

2. EPICS AT ANY LEVEL: I don’t like this at all. I realize it’s an argument over semantics but epic as defined by Merriam-Webster is “extending beyond the usual or ordinary especially in size or scope.” ([url]http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/epic[/url], 2009) Epics are to be just that, EPIC. The revamped models are different true, but most are actually worse than their variant as they are not fun and lack any fluff or flavor.

3. MIN OR MAX UNITS ONLY: Terrible, possibly one of the worst mechanics of the game. Much less diversity because you are locked into one or the other. I realize this will help sales as those of us who’ve only felt the need to run 8 bile thralls or 8 bane thralls as that’s all we need will now have to suck it up and buy more blisters. Honestly, how many of you guys ever run one or the other? Usually it’s somewhere in between. 7 or 9 maybe. Either way, you get my drift.

4. SYMBOLS FOR ABILITIES: yeah, this is a bit cartoony for me, as a constant heckler of hero clix and other sissy gamers I feel sheepish now that my own stuff has the same symbology. Is that a word?

5. LACK OF SCENARIO SECTION: Wasn’t this explained earlier?

6. LACK OF GRAPHIC VIOLENCE: Where is the death and mayhem? I read a reference to a model being disemboweled as simply being “boxed.” LAME! We kill things, that’s what my big axe does to your sissy long gunner; it cuts your f^(%!n$ head off. Just a silly tangent, back on topic.

7. OTHER IMPRESSIONS: I was lied to. PP did the old bait and switch on me. EVERYTHING from Legends, which is still so new the spine still cracks when I open it, is now garbage. Streamlining doesn’t mean butchering. We were told that everything would be essentially the same. That each unit/fig’s role would be the same. This is why I spent hundreds of dollars buying EVERYTHING from that book. You said it’d be the same. It is not.

I’m not a fan of this being a whole new game. I gladly invested thousands of dollars, hundreds of hours and poured a ton of emotion into MKI, now you tell me that’s gone for good and I have to deal with it? You tell me to live with it and “evolve or die?” What, are you thirteen? As an adult I have to make a lot of big boy decisions dealing with investments all the time. The cost of this game does equal an investment. I know for a fact many of you have just as much money in this as I do and the thought that it’s a waste now because the fun has been sucked out, dumbed down and numbed to the point of useless is maddening.

I love that the many of the rules and confusions have been clarified. I like that for the sake of simplicity there is only one type of ghost walk. I like that model size is clarified and LOS, timing issues and the majority of rules are condensed and simplified. I don’t like that units are called grunts and that leaders are auto promoted should one take an axe to their skull.

I’ve half dozen games already under the new system and frankly I do not love it. It was all about the flavor and fun of the game for me and I truly feel that has been so sanitized now that it’s just like playing 40K. I quit 40K and didn’t pick up a fig for almost 7 years until a friend turned me on to Warmachine. It was so zesty and the casters were so over the top that I couldn’t resist. I got hooked much to the dismay of my wife and have been an avid gamer for quite some time now.

Now don’t take what I’m saying as “I’m gonna quit” yadda yadda. All I’m doing is expressing my honest opinion as to the apparent lack of fun that is WM MKII. I’m still going to play. Game night is still every Wednesday at six for all you guys in the Cache Valley Utah area. I want to play test this until my eyes bleed because I WANT this game to be FUN again. I WANT WM MKII to survive and thrive and be so awesome that all my buddies drop their fishing poles and come play war games instead. That being said, as of right now, this is not a system I’d advocate.



  1. Of course, your local store can just continue to us MK I formats where possible, for shits and giggles.

  2. I think I am going to blow off the tournament to give the MKII rules a shot, that and I still haven't put together the deathjack because the weather has been way to nice. I didn't notice that you have to have a min or max of unit. I hardly ever run just a min or max unit of anything. I really need to sit down and read through all of the new rules.

  3. You blow off a one time tourney for a chance to try new rules that will be here for a long time and I will personally kick you in the junk!!! Or just bring my Mercs and wipe the floor with Cryx's newfound suckiness in MKII

  4. You have really played half a dozen games in the last day? Here I am still just trying to get through all the new rules and cards.

  5. Bait and switch is a strong term, one that should be used with caution. I will come back to this.

    Remember, we finished Legends in 07. At that time we had no idea what Mk 2 was going to end up looking like.

    We are doing this field test so that people can get a look at things and provide feedback!

    You can either provide feedback about how you think the models should look or you can complain about it. As of me posting this you have 4 feedback entries in, one typo 2 on models and one that reads
    "I don't know where to begin. I think the whole card is a mistake?"
    Do you honestly think that that will help get what you want?

    On the two model entries all I can really divine is that you do not think the Cankerwyrm can deal enough damage and that you are upset. You communicate that you are upset very well but I do not understand what would make you happy with the models.

    You can enact change, you have the power to get things adjusted, but to do that you must communicate the information not hurt feelings.

    Remember, None of this is finished. :)

    Lastly, my Dad used to tell me when I was young and full of fight that in life we only get so many bullets to use to fight our fights, and that we must choose our fights wisely. Saying that we pulled a bait and switch on you is using bullets.

    We are not fighting, we have asked for your feedback on the models, but saying that "you hate it now"(my words as an example) does not allow us to correct what you are seeing as an issue.

  6. I totally understand where you are coming from Kevin. Please understand that right now I'm having a hard time putting eloquently my issues with the models respectively so resort to what is easiest to write. Rage.

    Concerning the helldiver once I hit submit I did realize that was probably a poor comment. My issue however was that it, the helldiver, has no real function any more. Burrow doesn't effect the game like it did before which was a reason to field the helldiver in the first place. When it surfaces there are no added benefits to behoove the burrow either.

    When it comes to trying to provide solutions I really wanted to refrain from saying "da old version is teh bettor and da new one is teh suxor." I counldn't think of anything so I left it out hoping that simply stating how "not fun" the models are NOW would hint that I thought the previous versions to be much more playable. Frankly I don't know what you guys NEED to hear to get my point accross. It's be easier to have a one on one conversation but I realize that's nigh impossible. So I'm left with my clunky keyboard and writers block.

    That being said I still feel that the cankerworm and bloodgorgers are so much worse than was originally sold to me in Legends that yes, I feel extremely cheated to the point that I am furious. I used bullets because I am that hurt and feel personally violated by the decision to quite literally castrate two of the coolest and most fun units in the Cryx arsenal. Should I have been a little more selective of my words? Probably. But the cost of buying the gorgers was well worth it to me when they had blood marks, furios charge etc. In their current state I would not have been able to convince myself to waste that much money on them.

    My problem with the beta test is that there is soooo much new thrown at us all at once that it's almost overwhelming. Don't discredit the players for taking it personal that the game is different from what they were introduced to. This is a big deal. Bigger than a simple nerf or rule change, MKII is a new game and we all have to decide how to react. Do we rage? Take it? Or offer feedback. As I stated I want to play test the hell out of MKII because I want it to succeed.

    I played two games on vassal last night and 3 today when I should have been studying at 15 point each and was able to see that there is so much potentially right with MKII. The removal of flavor from the casters and destroying the bloodgorgers and cankerworm are the bigest pills that I've yet to swallow which is why I'm so vocal about it.

  7. I can't help but wonder if other faction players feel like Cryx got nerfed or if they just got balanced with everyone else. I for one know that large amounts of players Felt Cryx to be the MOST broken of the factions followed closely by Khador. MKII seems to have corrected a lot of that for most of us. Granted the bulk of my experience is with Trolls and Hordes and only have a little over a dozen games in with my Mercs.

    That said, if I did play Cryx, I would probably be pretty ticked of about what happened. Since Cryx is not my faction all that I can give is empathy and we can playtest the crap out of these to give PP constructive ways to improve upon the new direction of our favorite game.

  8. I to a certain extent completely agree with Geoff, I am just slightly more level headed about it. I have only been playing since August and have made every purchase based on the abilities of the models not only on their own strengths, but how they interacted with the other models that I had interests in.

    That being said the bloodgorgers have dropped down on my list of wants. I found the idea that they became more badass as you destroyed more living models very appealling. The appeal and fun factor has dropped substantially.

    The cankerworm was truely awesome in MKI rules, but that made it a target and it usually didn't get to live long enough to have it's true potential realized. The change of the affinity I am assuming is to take the place of the scutter action, and that part I am not too upset about. I did prefer the combination of corrosion and the cankerworm a bit better than armor piercing. The one big thing that I am not a fan of is the lack of soul tokens as it destroys living models.

    I don't understand the need to rid the deathjack of the necrovent. That was a nice added feature and to me did not seem to be to overwhelming for opponents. I have only played the deathjack a few times and I used the necrovent, but not for a huge kill or anything like that.

    As I mentioned before I haven't read through all of the rules and I haven't play tested at all yet, but those are some of the findings that I would like to share.

    And as for Dallas kicking me in the junk for not playing in the tournament the biggest reason is because the days have been too damn nice for me to sit inside and put together the Deathjack, so instead I have been working out in the yard. If I get the Deathjack assembled I will play, but I'm not going to play in the tournament if all I have are the slayer, cankerworm and some chicken jacks.

  9. It's all about the Seether now anyway!! Throw you slayer away or glue some horns on it and call it a Seether!

  10. At first glance at the new rules I thought the same way as McCryx, but as I have read through all of my cards and read the forums I figured out new and horrifying combos to run.

    It's not the same game, and I partially agree with Blah, Cryx nerf was more of a Cryx fyx.

    My main problem is the figs that I would never in a million years buy are now some of the best infantry we have, yes I'm looking at you Storm Blades.

    I have already posted on the Official MKII forums about everything that they did wrong to Darius, I understand he needed to be scaled back, but not made unusable.

    I feel bad about Cryx eating it, but not nearly as bad as I will feel when I make the TH immune to free strikes, Locomotion it through all of your stuff, move again, then nuke everyone within 14". Har har har!

    Thanks for giving me that one Kev. :)

  11. I do understand the feeling, we have all been going through them here as well ( I dont love my devout's nearly as much as I used to, for a personal example, that said I can see a use for all my jacks now and not just a couple)

    On the topic of feedback, what we need is quantifiable data points. So for example, this model should hit harder.

    Or more involved.

    I do not feel that these models match their fiction anymore, and are lacking in flavor. On the table they fill the same roll as model X which are cheaper to boot! My suggestion is that they gain an ability to make them more distinct, and their points may need an adjustment in the downward direction.

    That right there is what helps and makes change happen.

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  13. (Starts Polishing up his boot in anticipation of TremShaun NOT playing in the tourney Wednesday)

    Don't feel bad about feedback McCryx I have left three incredibly vague feedbacks myself, and two of them are related to Merc models that are now available to my favored faction and how they should interact. Feedback on something that hasn't happened yet... good job Blah.

  14. That's exactly the sort of "bone" I was hoping to be tossed. I guess the enormity of the open beta was a tad overwhelming. Seeing an example of what is considered constructive will provide a good model for future feed back.



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